JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
The child actor to pop star pipeline has given us Olivia Rodrigo and Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears - and for a while, Ramona.
RACHEL LYNN SOLOMON: I've always loved reading celebrity memoirs of former child stars...
SUMMERS: Author Rachel Lynn Solomon.
SOLOMON: ...Because I think it says something about our society that when we talk about child stars, it's couched in, oh, but she's OK now, as though this is the rare exception - that someone is coming out of this seemingly unscathed. So my goal with this story was to give Ramona that agency back.
SUMMERS: Ramona is the female lead of Solomon's new romance novel. She's had enough of the school of hard knocks and signs up for school - college at age 26, where she has this one psychology professor named Nick, who - well, it's a romance novel, and it is called "Extracurricular." Author Rachel Lynn Solomon knows the whole student-professor taboo is an old trope, but her Ramona isn't exactly powerless.
SOLOMON: She really needs to make a change in her life. She has spent 26 years living in the public eye. She has been subjected to abuse from her manager parents, from the world at large, from executives. And she has reached a state of complete and total burnout. And there's always been someone else pulling the strings. And leaving the music industry - this is really the first independent choice she has ever made.
SUMMERS: And her journey into the classroom and into academia is what leads us to Nick, her psychology professor. And the first moment in the book, when she initially walks into his classroom, he's pretty wary and dismissive of her, doesn't really take her ambition seriously. Tell us about Nick and about the dynamic in those early days.
SOLOMON: So Nick is - he's mid-30s. He's recently divorced. And I wanted to paint him as kind of the opposite of the professor archetype. You know, you think of this stiff, starchy guy with the sweater vest and the elbow patches. I wanted him to be the kind of confident, easygoing, generally unrattleable professor who's just always kind of running around the classroom, just loves connecting with students. And yet she really gets under his skin.
SUMMERS: Rachel, your book combines a couple of popular tropes. There's the age gap between Ramona and Nick, but there's also the fact that Nick is Ramona's professor. I wonder what appeals to you about these kinds of romance stories where there's a little bit of - I don't know - a taste of the forbidden.
SOLOMON: For sure. And I realize that these are two tropes that can be extremely polarizing to readers. And I think that's part of what makes them so appealing, because yes, they are forbidden. They are taboo. And my goal with this book was to take those two tropes and turn this relationship into something as tender and loving as possible because, I mean, as people will hopefully see in the book, consent and communication are absolutely at the forefront. And that's just nonnegotiable for me as a romance author and especially when dealing with these tropes.
But because Ramona is reclaiming a lot of her agency and because they are at this power imbalance at the beginning - he is so used to being in control in his classroom. That's his domain. And then she comes charging in there, kind of going into his office, messing up his books, and he is completely taken aback. And they're both kind of grappling for power. You know, she comes from this world where she is - she's famous, she's rich. It's not a typical age gap where she doesn't have any power. But I think as time goes on, it reveals that they are very perfectly matched for each other because they are able to open up and be vulnerable in a way that they haven't with anyone else.
SUMMERS: You recently wrote a piece about a one-line review that this book received, and I want to read that review so we can get into it. The review says, the hottest thing a man can do is go to therapy. And first of all, I just want to say, facts, but let's talk...
SOLOMON: (Laughter).
SUMMERS: ...About how this relates to Nick and Ramona.
SOLOMON: Yes. So because Nick has recently gone through a divorce, he has been in therapy. Literally the very first line of his first chapter is about him recently having gone to a therapy session. So he is - he's set up for success in that he is learning how to process his emotions. But he's also very wary of how he appears to other people in that he doesn't want to burden them with those emotions. We learn early on he only allows himself a very reasonable 10 minutes per day to wallow because he doesn't want to bother anyone. And Ramona really encourages him to feel his feelings.
And then Ramona has also spent quite a lot of time in therapy unpacking the trauma she has dealt with, you know, as a result of her career, as a result of some of her past relationships. And actually, in one of their first scenes together, they both kind of make a joke about being in therapy and about most of Los Angeles being in therapy. And I think they've really developed a lot of skills that enable them to slowly take off their masks and stop performing around the other person.
SUMMERS: You've made the case that romance novels are sort of the perfect place to explore mental health. Why do you think that is?
SOLOMON: I think a huge part of that reason is, with a romance novel, one of the only rules is that you need to have either a happily ever after or a happy for now. So when readers pick up the book, they know that they are guaranteed that no matter what kind of trauma, you know, what kind of suffering you inflict on the characters, they will be together in the end. And with, you know, how messy and stressful and horrible the world can be, so many readers want that escapism. And, I mean, first of all, it feels like just an honor to be able to provide that joy and that light to someone.
But with regard to mental health, I think that, first of all, people are always wanting to see themselves in books, and they want to see that they can have this wild, escapist love story no matter what is going on in their brain and how it's working. But yeah, I think it's really, romance novels are a soft place to land. And when you pick up a romance novel - or when I'm writing a romance novel, I feel like I'm making a promise to the reader that I might explore some difficult topics, but I will do it in a safe space, and I will hopefully make them feel seen and understood in that they are worthy of love.
SUMMERS: I know that you used to work in public radio in Seattle, and one of your previous books, "The Ex Talk," was actually set at a public radio station in the Pacific Northwest. So I wonder, are there things that you took away from your time in journalism that help you now as a fiction writer?
SOLOMON: Yes. I mean, I think the major thing is that I'm so much less scared to reach out to people asking to interview them (laughter). I was a very shy, very unconfident teenager. And then going to college and studying journalism, I had to cold-call people and ask if I could talk to them for the student newspaper. Sometimes it wasn't even calling. It was showing up in person. And I'm also 4-10, so even - I'm intimidated by pretty much everyone (laughter). So unfortunately, I didn't get to talk to any pop stars for this book, but...
SUMMERS: (Laughter).
SOLOMON: Or you're a psychology professor. Can I pick your brain about your job for, you know, for a few minutes? And that always, I think, gives my books that extra bit of realism, I hope. Yeah, I think that if I didn't have that background - I don't know - I might still be that shy, awkward person typing away at their laptop at the back of the coffee shop. And now, you know, I might still be doing that, but maybe my posture is a little straighter. My head is a little higher. So it's given me a lot of confidence.
SUMMERS: We've been speaking with Rachel Lynn Solomon. Her new book, "Extracurricular," is out now. Rachel, thank you.
SOLOMON: Thank you. I had such a blast.
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